Guests - Charles Foley, Sheron Jones, Col. Tom Rempfer, Cpt. Bill Sullivan

Flag Day Approaching: A Conversation with Charles Foley of Flags for the Flagless

The Significance of the American Flag

Charles Foley, founder of Flags for the Flagless, joined the Winn Tucson program to discuss the importance of displaying the American flag, particularly with Flag Day approaching in June. During the conversation, he noted that more American flags are being displayed around Tucson than before.

"Driving here today, I came down Swan, and I saw flags I don't think I've ever seen before," Foley remarked. "I saw at least four flags getting down to the studio. Not like up in the foothills, but Swan and 20th, Swan and 29th, Swan and Broad. I saw American flags I've never seen before."

Foley emphasized that the American flag belongs to all citizens, regardless of political affiliation. "I've said this previously and I'll say it till the day I die – nobody owns the American flag. It belongs to every single American citizen. No political party owns it. No news channel or news organization owns it. Nobody owns that flag. It belongs to all of us."

Recent Flag-Related News

Foley discussed several recent news stories involving the American flag, including President Trump's proposal to install a 100-foot flagpole at the White House. He noted that Trump has long been a supporter of prominently displaying large American flags, citing previous instances at Mar-a-Lago and a golf course in Rancho Palos Verdes where Trump installed larger-than-permitted flagpoles.

Another story Foley shared was about Parker Jensen, a high school senior and Marine enlistee in Baltimore County, Maryland. Jensen noticed that two classrooms in his school lacked American flags, despite state law requiring flags in every classroom. When Jensen brought this to the attention of school authorities, he was suspended until April 8th, causing him to miss his prom and other activities.

Flag Day History and Ceremonial Importance

Flag Day, June 14th, coincides with both President Trump's birthday and the founding of the U.S. Army in 1775. Foley mentioned that Flag Day was once celebrated much more prominently in America, with parades and widespread flag displays.

Foley also discussed the importance of properly lowering flags to half-staff as a sign of respect during times of national mourning or to honor fallen service members. He cautioned that extremely large flags can sometimes create challenges when following half-staff protocols.

"Just because you fly a big, huge American flag doesn't make you a better American or doesn't make you more patriotic than the next person," Foley stated. "When you have a really huge flag, what are you going to do when it's time to put it at half-staff? The governor says, 'Hey, police officer killed in line of duty, all flags at half-staff.' There's certain times that are planned or unplanned where you got to put that flag at half-staff."

Gold Star Season at University of Arizona

Foley announced a partnership with Rockin' for Heroes to honor Gold Star families at University of Arizona football games during the upcoming season.

"We will have Gold Star families at every single home football game and an American flag flying in that family member's honor," Foley explained. "They'll be at the game early to see the flag go up before everyone's there in their seats. They will be on the field during the national anthem."

The flags will be raised at 9:00 AM on game days, with only the family, Foley, and a university facilities worker present. Later, during the game's national anthem, the family will be on the field while 40-50,000 spectators honor their loved one's flag.

After the game, each flag will be placed in a shadow box with a brass plaque stating, "This flag flew over Arizona Stadium in honor of [service member's name and rank]," and presented to the family.

"I think that is the least we can do as a country," Foley said. "To give back to these young men and women who weren't drafted. They raised their hands and said, 'I'll go.'"

A Gold Star Mother's Perspective: Sheron Jones

Remembering Staff Sergeant Daryl D. Cassan

Sheron Jones, president of the Southern Arizona Gold Star Mothers Incorporated, joined the program to share her experience as a Gold Star mother. Her son, Staff Sergeant Daryl D. Cassan, served in the Army National Guard Reserves and was killed in Iraq in 2007.

"He was due to retire when they told him that he was going to go to Iraq for 15 months," Jones explained. "He was over there four months. He was lead convoy and they had to make a decision to leave in five minutes or wait another hour. And the two staff sergeants decided they were going to go ahead and go."

Cassan was killed when his Humvee hit a roadside bomb (IED). "It flipped their Humvee upside down and skidded like 500 feet. By the time they could get them out, they didn't realize that anybody was seriously hurt. Unfortunately, they didn't have any protection under the Hummers at that time. So all the shrapnel hit him in the legs and he basically bled out."

Tragically, Cassan had earned his 20 years of service just one week before he was killed. Jones described her son as a "joke-ster" who "could walk in the room and within two minutes he could have you laughing." In addition to his military service, Cassan had worked for the Department of Corrections in Florence for 17 years.

The Mission of Gold Star Mothers

Southern Arizona Gold Star Mothers focuses on honoring veterans and supporting other Gold Star families. One of their primary missions is raising donations to place wreaths on veterans' graves at Evergreen Cemetery, which has over 16,000 veterans laid to rest there.

Jones emphasized the importance of remembering fallen soldiers year-round, not just on memorial holidays. "People only remember the day that we lose them and then they go on with their lives, but they forget that there's parents out there," she said.

She also discussed the ongoing grief that Gold Star families experience. "The problem with Gold Star families is people seem to forget that we grieve every day for our loved ones and they think we should get over it, move on. And I've always told somebody, we don't move on. We move forward because we take them with us."

Jones described how the organization reaches out to newly bereaved military families. "We try and comfort them, let them know that we're here if they need to talk. I always give them my phone number. I'm available whenever they want to talk."

Memorial at Evergreen Cemetery

Jones helped establish a memorial at Evergreen Cemetery's Section 11 that honors fallen soldiers. The sculpture features a Gold Star mother (modeled after Jones herself) seated and holding a folded flag, with a little boy holding dog tags and a little girl holding a Purple Heart.

"I found a gentleman, a humanist wife, did this memorial for our soldiers that we've lost," Jones explained. "It's so that anybody, even if you're not a Gold Star mother, you can go over there and sit and talk with your loved one."

The memorial, which has been in place since 2019, includes a bench where the figures sit and a second bench facing them where visitors can sit and reflect. The Vietnam Veterans organization also installed a flagpole nearby that flies the American flag continuously.

Secretary of Defense Acknowledges Unlawful COVID Vaccine Mandate

Pete Hegseth's Announcement

The program aired a recording of Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth acknowledging that the previous administration's COVID-19 vaccine mandate for military personnel was unlawful. In his statement, Hegseth announced a memorandum directing the Under Secretary of Defense for Personnel and Readiness to provide additional guidance for reviewing cases of service members adversely impacted by the vaccine mandate.

"The guidance also will facilitate the removal of adverse actions on service members solely for refusing to take the COVID-19 vaccine, including discharge upgrades and less than fully honorable discharges for individuals separated for refusing to take the COVID-19 vaccine," Hegseth stated.

He also mentioned that the guidance would "facilitate appropriate remedies for service members who have suffered additional career setbacks resulting from the previous administration's unlawful vaccine mandate."

Impact on Military Personnel

Following the announcement, Captain Bill Sullivan (retired, U.S. Navy) and Colonel Tom Rempfer (retired, U.S. Air Force) joined the program to discuss the implications of this development.

Captain Sullivan had been relieved from duty in November 2023 for refusing to comply with the COVID vaccine order, just two months before completing his seventh two-year command tour. "I was relieved for cause, which is really the worst thing you can do to a naval officer," Sullivan explained. "To be relieved for cause for refusing to comply with and enforce an unlawful order, it was very disturbing to me."

Colonel Rempfer provided context on the scale of the impact: "Approximately 8,600 service members were involuntarily separated under other than honorable conditions from active duty for refusal to comply with the unlawful order. But that is just a fraction of the number of personnel that we lost that were coerced and forced out of the service."

Rempfer explained that the total number affected was much higher, likely around 100,000 service members or roughly 5% of the total U.S. military force. This larger number includes those who were over the 20-year retirement mark, those who chose not to re-enlist, and reservists who were administratively separated for being unable to report to duty without the vaccine.

Financial and Career Consequences

The vaccine mandate had significant financial and career impacts on those affected. Captain Sullivan described how it affected him personally: "I retired out of the reserve. It comprised at the time about a quarter of my income. So we lost that. We lost Tricare. As a reservist, you're not eligible to collect retirement until age 60. We have had to make up for all that lost income."

Sullivan also mentioned losing the ability to transfer his GI Bill benefits to his children and emphasized that many junior enlisted personnel faced even more severe consequences, including being "pushed out onto the street" with job specialties that might not transfer well to civilian employment.

Colonel Rempfer noted that the financial resources to compensate these service members should already be available: "These people's pay was authorized by the United States Congress in the National Defense Authorizations Act. There were 100,000-plus troops that left early, but guess what? The taxpayers had already funded their salaries. Where did that money go? That money was already allocated."

Proposed Solutions

Both Sullivan and Rempfer offered recommendations for addressing this issue:

Captain Sullivan suggested: "Reach out to each, every individual that left the service beginning on August 24th, 2021, all the way until the vaccine order was lifted in early 2023. I would contact everybody. I would say, look, we were wrong. We made a mistake if you left the service due to this reason."

Colonel Rempfer advocated for immediately reinstating all affected personnel: "Put everybody back on status, start paying them, make the military go ahead and figure out how to reverse what happened to these troops and give them orders back to their same duty station with the appropriate protections from being retaliated against by this previously vindictive chain of command."

Rempfer emphasized that this approach would create the necessary urgency within the military bureaucracy to process these reinstatements efficiently. "Put them back on status, start paying them again, return them to the position that they were prior to this unlawful mandate, and force the various administrative entities within the Department of Defense to more expeditiously put these people back to work."

Accountability vs. Repair

When asked about accountability for military leaders who enforced the unlawful mandate, both officers acknowledged the importance of accountability while focusing on repair.

Captain Sullivan stated: "It absolutely matters. In fact, it's crucial. Again, the military, the good order and discipline in the military only works on trust in leadership. It's disturbing to me. Not one officer senior to me appears to have stood up against the unlawful order."

Colonel Rempfer offered a balanced perspective: "Do you go after the accountability of the senior leaders, literally all levels of command that implemented this illegal order? The job would be so vast. The court martials would be so consuming. It would create a great deal of turmoil within the military. Could it be done? Could there be some examples of senior military leaders that were particularly vindictive, that should be held accountable? I think that's reasonable. But I like to focus on the repair."

Rempfer concluded: "I think repairing it versus retaliating might be the best path forward."

Parallels to the Anthrax Vaccine Mandate

Colonel Rempfer also drew parallels to the previous anthrax vaccine mandate controversy, which he had personally fought against. Although affecting fewer personnel (approximately 1,000 directly discharged and up to 10,000 who left voluntarily), the anthrax vaccine mandate was similarly found to be illegal by federal courts.

"Anthrax vaccine was a total debacle. It was found illegal by the federal courts. The sole congressional report published on the matter, House Report 106-556, actually determined that it was unlawful," Rempfer explained. "Just as they are correcting COVID shot injustices and that patently illegal mandate, the anthrax vaccine program was also patently illegal determined by both the courts and the Congress."

Despite court rulings, Rempfer noted that the Department of Defense never fully addressed the anthrax vaccine issue. "They need to go back and do the right thing for those troops and do no-cost administrative, fully upgraded discharges for those thousand or so troops that were kicked out."